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Hidden In Him

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Hidden In Him

March 15, 2024, 06:01:15 PM
Attention: To anyone viewing this site, I will be moving to another forum. I will leave this one up until the end of the year so viewers can still view the material here, but after that this site will be shut down.

If you have any questions, you can contact me privately by becoming a member.

Johnnyhoppy

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awe-inspiring first encounter girls
 
 
 
 
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ytmp3music

September 23, 2023, 12:39:24 PM
Titanic post! I couldn't coincide more with your points. It's happy to give some thought to such mindful insights shared here.
Youtube to mp3 converter
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Hidden In Him

March 02, 2022, 01:44:01 PM
What a beautiful Spring day! Glory to God!
 

Hidden In Him

January 07, 2022, 06:49:10 PM
Alive and well!  :)

Happy 2022! This is gonna be a good one. I can feel it, Lol.
 

MoreBloodWine

December 30, 2021, 05:29:20 PM
You alive Chris ?
 

MoreBloodWine

October 14, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
But ya, any PM's sent they should be made aware of via email, if they have notifications set for receipt of a PM.

But even if so, my newsletter blast can ignore such settings so anyone registered will at least get my message. But I can name them specifically in it for *** & giggles.
 

MoreBloodWine

October 14, 2020, 06:15:17 PM
Still need to check some things but that will be easy enough to do via PM.

When the site is re-opened. It is now, but tech locked down... but when it's "back". I can send out a newsletter, anyone who has an email attached that they still use will be made aware / be able to come back if that's what they choose to do.
 

Hidden In Him

October 14, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
You're kidding... That would be something. Any way to contact ShadowKen and Indybones? And maybe Pineapple, LoL. I suppose if it's all intact I could just message and it would go thru to email.
 

MoreBloodWine

October 14, 2020, 01:53:33 AM
@HIM: The MP is back, but it will need to remain in maintenance mode until I can re skin it / fix some of the underlying addons, But it is loading again... all data should still be intact.

I've already alerted spddmn's wife to let him know ;-)
 

Hidden In Him

April 27, 2020, 06:37:28 PM
And after checking, it wasn't done yet, LoL. Looks like it is now (hopefully).
 

Hidden In Him

April 08, 2020, 10:37:46 AM
This one's pretty good, LoL. Should be fun to put on video some day.  :)
http://www.spiritualwarbiblestudies.com/index.php?topic=181.msg207#msg207
 

Hidden In Him

March 10, 2020, 12:43:23 PM
 :) :) :)
 

MoreBloodWine

March 10, 2020, 07:02:44 AM
Everything happens for a reason, even if it's rewriting old works ;-)
 

Hidden In Him

March 07, 2020, 07:12:18 PM
My wife dislikes the idea that I'm rewriting studies rather than writing new ones, but the Lord is now opening up Colossians to me like never before, and some work needs to be redone. Very excited about the new insight!  :)
 

Hidden In Him

February 29, 2020, 02:19:44 PM
...get back to making sure studies were ready to put on camera when the time comes.  :)

So how's life with you?  
 

Hidden In Him

February 29, 2020, 02:18:44 PM
I noticed you were still lurking around, LoL. Glad to see I'm not the only one happy about it.  :) Hard at work converting the garage into a recording studio & music room. Gonna be nice! The soundproofing is going to be work and money, but a lot of it is already purchased. In the meantime, I had to
 

MoreBloodWine

February 29, 2020, 01:59:43 AM
 :) :) :)
 

Hidden In Him

February 28, 2020, 05:43:50 PM
I'm officially going back to writing! Glory to God Almighty!! Having fun again already, and going to be going to work improving and the adding to the set on Colossians.

Blessings in Christ to all who visit,
Hidden
 

MoreBloodWine

November 02, 2019, 02:37:56 AM
I rarely ever used Tapatalk to log in to the site. Not sure if anyone ever actually did as the issue of it not working was never reported.

But for our mobile uses, certain things like this chat box will not be available through the app as this chat box is an addon itself. But all boards within the forum are available and currently confirmed working.

Ty & my apologies !
 

Hidden In Him

August 05, 2019, 03:21:06 PM
An excellent passage I am now writing a study on in the Book of Colossians.

"And I am now rejoicing in [my] sufferings over you, and filling up in my flesh what is lacking of the afflictions of Christ for His body's sake, which is the church, of which I became a servant
 

Hidden In Him

August 05, 2019, 03:20:49 PM
... of which I became a servant according to the administration of God having been given unto me, for you to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations but which has now been made manifest to His saints, to whom God wished to make known what

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Author Topic: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18  (Read 3968 times)

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Hidden In Him

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1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
« on: August 13, 2013, 01:35:44 PM »
The Great Tribulation Will Come Before The Rapture Does

     Having urged the Thessalonians to manifest brotherly love especially towards widows and orphans who had lost husbands, Paul now turned to comforting them on an emotional level. The wives of fallen husbands especially would be effected by such losses, as they would now not only be without their closest friend and companion but their financial provider as well. Yet Paul did not want them to grieve. The rapture and the resurrection were now imminent (so it appeared), so his encouragement was for them to meditate on how they would soon be reunited with their loved ones again. Those who were in Christ had no need to become sorrowful like those in the world:

     But I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, concerning those who are [now] sleeping, so that you not be grieved even as the rest who do not have hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also will God through Jesus bring with Him those who have fallen asleep. For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are still alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall in no way precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remaining shall be caught away in the clouds to a meeting of the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Therefore, encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)     

     Amazingly, however, this context of what conditions will be like before the rapture takes place has now been lost upon most Christians, thanks to the popular teaching that we will be raptured out before the tribulation takes place, and not have to experience persecution. Many within Protestantism now favor this position, but where did the pre-tribulation theory actually come from? There is debate about its true origins, but it became clear by the 1970s that the pre-tribultion position was in the ascendancy, thanks in large part to the sales and popularity of a book entitled The Late Great Planet Earth.
     As Wikipedia states:

     During the 1970s, belief in the rapture became popular in wider circles, in part due to the books of Hal Lindsey, including The Late Great Planet Earth, which has reportedly sold between 15 million and 35 million copies, and the movie A Thief in the Night, which based its title on the scriptural reference 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Lindsey proclaimed that the rapture was imminent, based on world conditions at the time. The Cold War figured prominently in his predictions of impending Armageddon. Other aspects of 1970s global politics were seen as having been predicted in the Bible. Lindsey suggested, for example, that the seven-headed beast with ten horns, cited in the Book of Revelation, was the European Economic Community, a forebear of the European Union, which between 1981 and 1986 had ten member states; it now has 27 member states.
     In 1995, the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture was further popularized by Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series of books, which sold tens of millions of copies and were made into several movies. The doctrine of the rapture continues to be an important component of American evangelical Christian eschatology... Pre-tribulation educators and preachers include Jimmy Swaggart, J. Dwight Pentecost, Tim LaHaye, J. Vernon McGee, Perry Stone, Chuck Smith, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Missler, Jack Van Impe, Grant Jeffrey, Thomas Ice, David Reagan, David Jeremiah, and John Hagee.

     As will also be demonstrated, pre-tribulation theology is actually highly inaccurate. But the issue is more than just a theological debate. The biggest danger with pre-tribulation rapture theology is that it can potentially lull believers into a false sense of security, causing them to believe that God will not allow them to suffer persecution because they will be raptured out before the tribulation begins. But history has shown that when persecution has come to those who were assured it would not, many have been unprepared to face the consequences and ended up abandoning the Lord as a result.


The Command To Watch For Jerusalem's Overthrow

     Starting again from Paul's previous verses dealing with the rapture and resurrection of the church:

     For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remaining shall be caught away in the clouds to a meeting of the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Therefore, encourage one another with these words. But concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to be written to, for you yourselves know accurately that the Day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, "Peace and security," then sudden destruction shall come upon them as labor pains upon a pregnant woman, and they shall not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness that the Day should overtake you as a thief… So then, we should not sleep as the rest, but watch and remain sober. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-5:4, 6)

     The words "when they say 'Peace and security'" were in reference to Roman propaganda at the time. The Romans were trying to establish peace throughout the entire world by conquering every nation on earth. Thus, after the Romans had conquered Jerusalem and all Jewish resistance had been put down, they would declare "Peace and security." In other words, Paul was teaching that the Thessalonians needed to watch because the great tribulation would have to come first. They might be overtaken by it by surprise if they did not. But the first obvious question is this: Why should they be told here to watch for something they would never witness? What was the point of Paul's exhortation here if a pre-tribulation rapture meant there was no way they ever could be overtaken by it because they wouldn't be around?
     Other passages suggest they clearly would be around to witness Jerusalem's overthrow. As He told His disciples (and notice here also that Jesus addressed the reader here, and the Gospels were being read by congregations during New Testament times):

     “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel - let the reader understand - then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains... For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now - and never to be equaled again… Immediately after the distress of those days... will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." (Matthew 24:15-22, 29-31)

     The "distress" referred to here is the tribulation, and it is after this distress that the Lord returns to gather His elect from the four winds. This one passage alone is enough to baffle many interpreters as to how pre-tribulationists can hold to their position. It is one of the passages that forced pre-tribulationists into inventing the theory of a "second rapture," the first supposedly taking place before the tribulation and the second one after it.
     But the following passage in Revelations makes this concept of two resurrections and raptures impossible:

     I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4-6)

     This passage is clearly talking about believers who lived through the tribulation, and they took part in the first resurrection. If, as pre-tribulationists teach, Christ will supposedly return prior to the tribulation to rapture and resurrect the saints, how could Jesus here be referring to this as the "first resurrection"? It would have to be the second, since these people went through the tribulation. In reality, the concept of two raptures is a fabrication.
     But the problem is that there are several passages pre-tribulation theory is based upon which are actually falsely interpreted, and in order to understand where so many have gotten it wrong, we will take a look at these next. 


The "Hour" The Philadelphians Escaped From In 64 A.D.

     The following passage in Revelations is the primary scriptural basis for the teaching of a mythical "first" rapture of the church before the tribulation period starts:

     To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of Him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What He opens no one can shut, and what He shuts no one can open.  I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept My word and have not denied My name.  I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars - I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. Since you have kept the word of My endurance, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is about to come upon the whole world to test those dwelling upon the earth. (Revelation 3:7-10)

     What was the "hour of trial" the apostle John referred to in this passage? Dr. David Jeremiah, a pre-tribulationist, gave the following explanation in his book, Escape The Coming Night:

     The "hour of trial" is the Great Tribulation… Notice, He does not say, "I will keep you through the hour of trial," but "from the hour of trial." This refers to the Rapture, when Jesus will catch away God's people for Himself… we clearly see in this promise that the church will not go through the Tribulation. How can the clarity of this promise be explained any other way? (Escape The Coming Night, P.73)

     There is very easily another way to explain this promise, and in light of early church history. The "hour of trial" that the Philadelphians were kept from was the commencement of Christian persecution that began under Nero's reign in 64 A.D. (more on the proper dating of Revelation in a moment). Nero blamed the Christians for a fire that consumed large portions of Rome, and they were thereafter rounded up and subjected to cruel tortures for the amusement of his guests at parties, and in the arena. Up until this time, Christian persecution arose in isolated regions, and cases were ultimately still subject to Roman jurisdiction. Persecution would flare up in one region, then spread to another, but never had it ever been sanctioned by the Roman Empire. But now the Christians no longer had the ability to appeal to Roman rule for protection. The empire had now become their persecutors.
     That this hour of trial would "test those dwelling upon the earth" makes it clear that those persecuted would be Christians. Why? Because God never tests the wicked. He has no need to. What is there to test? But as the apostle Peter explained, the Lord often uses trials and sufferings to test believers, so that the quality of their faith might be made manifest and refined through the fires of adversity:

     ... you rejoice, though now for a little while if need be having been grieved by various trials, so that the proving of your faith, much more precious than perishable gold, and being proven by fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:6-7)

     The Greek word used here for "trials" was the same word Christ used in warning the Philadelphians that a trial was coming which would "test those dwelling upon the earth." The Lord would use this same Greek word elsewhere in Revelations to warn the church at Smyrna, again predicting that persecution would soon arise to test them:   

     And unto the angel of the church at Smyrna write… Do not fear the things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the Devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. (Revelation 2:8, 10)

     God's promise to keep the Philadelphians from experiencing this hour of trial implies that they would be protected when most would not be, and therefore be the exception rather than the rule, another implication that this prophecy referred to the Rome-sanctioned persecution of Christians that began under Nero.
     But some would argue that the Book of Revelations wasn't even written until 90 A.D., so how could it be referring to the persecution of Nero's reign. Sadly, the date of 90 A.D. is dubious, and as is the case with any inaccurate teaching, it eventually comes back to haunt the body of Christ until it is corrected.   


Jesus Said Revelation Would Be Fulfilled Quickly

     Does the claim that the Book of Revelation first appeared around 90 A.D. mesh with the rest of the internal content of Revelations itself? The answer is No. For starters, several times in the vision Jesus tells John to expect the fulfillment of these prophecies to come quickly. The Lord made this clear twice in the first three verses alone:

     The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show His servants what things must quickly take place… Blessed are those who read and hear the words of this prophecy, and who keep the things having been written in it, for the time is near. (Revelation 1:1, 3)

     Towards the end of the letter, the Lord again began repeating over and over and over again that these prophecies would shortly come to pass:

     The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent His angel to show His servants the things that must shortly come to pass. Look, I am coming quickly! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book…" Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near… Look, I am coming quickly! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done... I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this book. He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” (Revelation 22:6-20)

     If the Book was written in 90 A.D., what happened quickly after this time? Nothing. If, however, the book was written around 63 A.D., much of what was written could have easily been interpreted to have been taking place after this date. Persecution quickly arose against the Christians, and then Jerusalem was soon thereafter attacked and conquered by the Romans, with the outer court of the Jewish temple indeed being trampled under foot by the Gentiles as prophesied in Revelations 11:1-2:

     And there was given to me a reed like a staff, [and the angel] said, "Rise, and measure the sanctuary of God, and the altar, and those worshipping in it. Yet leave out the outer court of the sanctuary and do not measure it, because it is given over to the Gentiles, and they shall trample the holy city under foot for forty-two months." (Revelation 11:1-2)

     One of the reasons the Lord forbid anyone from adding to or taking away from the Book of Revelation was because He knew very well it was actually written for our time, not theirs. The Romans did not simply trample the outer court of the temple when they conquered Jerusalem in 70 A.D., they completely destroyed it, leaving not one stone atop another, just as Jesus prophesied to His disciples in Matthew 24:2. But because the Lord wanted the gospel preached, He knowingly led the early church to believe His return was imminent for their own good. Had He informed them that His return would be two thousand years later, they might not have sacrificed their lives for a promise so distant in the future, and largely irrelevant to the world in which they lived. Moreover, the Lord was intent on luring Satan into playing his cards, since the Devil himself was also operating under the assumption that the end was now near (Matthew 8:29).
     But if Revelations was written in 90 A.D. after the temple had already been completely destroyed, how would this prophecy even remotely appear to be on its way to fulfillment, quickly or slowly? There was no temple left standing for the Antichrist to enter, and no outer court left for the Gentiles to trample.


Nero: Emperor When Revelation Was Written

     Revelations states that John wrote the Book of Revelations from the island of Patmos "because of the testimony of Jesus Christ," or in other words, because he was banished there for preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ:

     I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in affliction, and in the Kingdom and endurance of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. (Revelation 1:9)

     When was John on the Isle of Patmos? An ancient document entitled The Syriac History of John, the Son of Zebedee states that John’s banishment to this island took place during the reign of Nero, who ruled from 54 through 68 A.D.:

     After these things, when the Gospel was increasing by the hands of the Apostles, Nero, the unclean and impure and wicked king, heard all that had happened at Ephesus. And he sent and took all that the procurator had, and imprisoned him; and he laid hold of St. John and drove him into exile, and passed sentence on the city that it should be laid waste.

     Moreover, both the Syriac Versions of the Revelation give in the very title itself the statement that John was banished by Nero. Their titles state, "The Apocalypse of St. John, written in Patmos, where John was sent by Nero Caesar." Since Nero died in 68 A.D., the Book of Revelation had to have been written prior to this date.

                                                                     

     Added to this, internal evidence from Revelations itself also suggests that Nero was the Emperor at the time of its writing. Chapter 17 states that five Roman Emperors had already come and gone when Revelations was written, and a sixth was now in power:

     Here is the mind having wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains… and there are seven kings. Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not come yet. And when he shall have come, he must remain a short time. (Revelation 17:9-10)

     The five emperors who had already fallen were, in order: Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius. Nero was now the sixth "king" to be ruling over the Roman Empire.
     Lastly, historical information on the seven churches pinpoints precisely when the Book must have been written: The early 60s A.D. This was the only window of time in which there were seven and only seven churches in Asia. The apostle Paul established nine churches in that area, but Christ Jesus addressed only seven in Revelation. This is because the cities of Colosse, Hierapolis, and Laodicea were all destroyed by an earthquake around 60 A.D. Laodicea was rebuilt soon afterwards, but the other two were not. This left only seven churches in Asia during the years just prior to the start of Nero's persecution. Moreover, seeing as how Laodicea was already again becoming prosperous by the time Revelations was written, this in all likelihood means the Book was written some time in late 63 or early 64 A.D., just months before Nero's persecution began.
     One more proof is a passage in the Muratorian Canon, which states "…for the blessed apostle Paul himself, following the order of his predecessor John, wrote to only seven churches by name, in the following order…”. If Paul followed John's example in writing to seven and only seven churches and Paul was killed in 68 A.D., it means John had to have written The Book of Revelation earlier than 68 A.D.


The Dangers In Adopting Pre-Tribulation Theology

     Herein lies the danger then: The Lord Jesus Christ was preparing the churches for persecution prior to the rapture, and with the strongest warnings possible. And we are now about to enter a time of persecution worse than at any time in history. Those who tell the church that they will not have to endure persecution in advance of the rapture may cost them their spiritual lives, for the spiritual consequences of this teaching have been tragic in the past. 
     Corrie ten Boom, a survivor of Nazi concentration camps during the time of the holocaust, once wrote:

     I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution. In China the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes, you will be translated - raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a bishop from China say, sadly, "We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first." Turning to me he said, "You will have time. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when the tribulation comes - to stand and not faint." (First Commandment Website; Corrie Ten Boom: Beware of False Teaching of Pre-Tribulation Rapture)

     She then went on to add the following:

     Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered. The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, “Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?”
     I told them a story out of my childhood. “When I was a little girl, I went to my father and said, 'Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ.' 'Tell me,' said Father, 'When you take a train trip to Amsterdam, when do I give you the money for the ticket? Three weeks before?' 'No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train.' 'That is right,' my father said, 'and so it is with God’s strength. Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ. He will supply all you need, just in time.'"
     My African friends were nodding and smiling. Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing, “In the sweet, by and by, we shall meet on that beautiful shore.” Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed. I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago. But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage those people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life. (First Commandment Website; Corrie Ten Boom: Beware of False Teaching of Pre-Tribulation Rapture)

     It was clearly not the theology of Paul to teach escapism, any more than Corrie ten Boom did. He gave this teaching to the Thessalonians on the rapture amidst a climate of persecution that was already taking place at the time, and precisely to keep them from becoming overly sorrowful due to losses they had already suffered in the midst of it. If persecution will intensify for us in years ahead, this makes it all the more important to teach the rapture in the context of persecution, lest our passage here in 1st Thessalonians become worthless to the very purpose for which the apostle Paul wrote it. 










« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 06:09:43 PM by Hidden In Him »